Doc (Original Message) Sent: 3/18/2001 4:00 PM- in MSN groups or communities, where CCA was established for the first time that was the first discussion. It has been the first discussion in sites or locations afterwards (see History of CCA). This is the first message or discussion here too.
This is from other communities. I have repeated many times. I want to share here as Catholic Church apologetics, the Truth about the Church.
The evidence or proof is repeated posts that you requested about Mt 16:18-19. Why did Jesus found the Catholic Church in the person of St. Peter? No one (SDAs, and others) has proved that is wrong with evidence no opinion because is true. By dealing with what it says, you prove something wrong; no avoiding or adding opinion or distorted facts. Dealing what is written here and presenting evidence against it. I have not seen that yet. If you do not have evidence, then be humble and acknowledge what is true. We must avoid the sin of pride, the sin of the devil. If you embrace the Truth, you embrace Jesus. He is the Truth, the Way and the Life and His Church, the pillar and foundation of Truth, 1 Tim 3:15.
I will deal now with Mt 16:18-19. Repeat from other discussions and the evidence that you are asking for.
Others and I have responded to this discussion already, about Mt 16:18-19. Check On this Rock discussion started by you. You stated in that discussion that Rock was the faith of Peter. You said "The Rock of devoted faith. Peter without the faith is not the rock, and the faith is expressed by Peter at the prompting of the Holy Spirit." Your article stated this, "lt is therefore possible for all the above mentioned interpretations to co-exist and, indeed, to harmonize and complete the meaning of the verse.” Both interpretations are right, the confession of Jesus to be the Messiah and St. Peter himself. In both, Jesus built his Church. I mentioned this before. Jesus is the Cornerstone and without Jesus, Catholic Church will not exist. St. Peter acknowledged that with his confession of faith, granted by God the Father as Jesus said. Jesus immediately changed his name from Simon to Rock (Kephas) or Petros in Greek. Jesus continued addressing him. He said to him, He will build his Church on Kephas. He did not say that he will build his Church on Himself. He was talking to Simon. He changed his name to Peter (Petros) and said to him, I will build my Church in you. He was talking to the person of Peter, no his faith, neither his confession. Then, to confirm that He meant the person of Peter, he said I will give you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. You can not give keys to a faith or a confession, only to a person. He did not give the keys to Himself. He is the King of kings. He does not need keys. Common sense should let you now understand the Truth better.
Remember that to Jesus, God will give the throne of David his father, and his kingdom will have no end, Lk 1:32-33. Jesus in giving to Peter not only a new name, Rock, but in entrusting to Simon the keys of the kingdom, He is borrowing a phrase from Isaiah 22. He's quoting a verse in the Old Testament that was extremely well known. The House of David is the Davidic kingdom, the Davidic dynasty. We know this because David has been dead for hundreds of years when this is happening in Isaiah 22, "I will give you the key of the House of David. He shall open and none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open. He will become a throne of honor to his father's house." Look at all of the symbols of dynastic authority that are being given to this individual. First of all, an office. Second, a robe. Third, a throne and fourth, keys, the key of the House of David, these royal keys. Jesus gives to Peter the keys of the kingdom, Peter is receiving the Prime Minister's office, which means dynastic authority from the Son of David, Jesus, the King of Israel, but also an office where there will be dynastic succession. I found this quotation in Martin Luther from 1530, years after he had left the Church, "Why are you searching heavenward in search of my keys? Do you not understand, Jesus said, 'I gave them to Peter. They are indeed the keys of heaven, but they are not found in heaven for I left them on earth.'" This is Jesus talking, "'Peter's mouth is my mouth, his tongue is my key case, his keys are my keys. They are an office.'" Luther even saw it, "'They are a power, a command given by God through Christ to all of Christendom for the retaining and remitting of the sins of men.'" The only thing that Luther won't admit is that there was succession after Peter died, which is exactly what the keys denote, given their Old Testament background. Check http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/POPE.TXT for more detail.
Other apostles are foundation too, as St Paul said. However, Jesus gave the keys only to St. Peter. That is significant. As I mentioned before, Jesus was citing Is 22. St. Peter was chosen by Jesus to be the Prime Minister until he comes again to judge the living and the dead. He was chosen to be the leader of the Apostles and head of the visible Church. Jesus stills the Head of the whole Church, the Cornerstone. We understand that the Church or the Mystical Body of Jesus has three parts, Triumphant Church in Heaven, invisible. Jesus is the Head besides the Head of the Mystical Body as Paul said. Second, Militant Church on earth, visible for us of course, the visible head is the Pope, Prime Minister of Jesus, Vicar of Christ on earth. Third, Suffering Church in Purgatory, that is invisible. Jesus is King; he inherited the throne of David, Davidican Kingdom. The Church is the Kingdom of God. Jesus came to earth, or the mission of the Messiah was, first, to establish his Kingdom. Jesus chose St. Peter to be his Prime Minister of his Kingdom. Because Jesus will go to the Father so the Holy Spirit can come to us. Last, He came to die for us for the forgiveness of sins. By his resurrection, He opened Heaven to all the faithful. The faithful follows the Church that Jesus founded. The successor of St. Peter is the Pope. The successors of the Apostles are the bishops. Therefore, the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded. I want to remind you that we are the only one with complete or full true unity. That is the Truth.
Are you familiar with Greek? Are you familiar with the Romance languages that derived from Latin and have Greek influence? Do you know how feminine nouns and masculine nouns are handled? The Greek and Latin handle feminine nouns and masculine nouns same way and so the Romance languages. The Aramaic, people that are familiar with that language said they use the same noun for female and masculine nouns. The same happen in English if you are familiar with the English language which I assume you are, you must know that. Example: doctor, you will not know in English whether doctor is a man or woman. In Greek, they changed the end of the word, "o" for masculine and "a" for female. If you know Greek, you must know that. Petros for male, Petra for female, both means the same, rock. In the Romance languages, Rock is a feminine word, but Simon is a male. Therefore, to proper translate to Greek a male name for Rock or Kepa, Petros was used. Petros was used only in Christianity, because as I mentioned before, the Greek translation for Rock, which is petra, but Peter is a male, Petros must be used. Nobody was name Rock before, and Petros was not used as name until the first Pope of the Catholic Church, the only one founded by Jesus. "Kepa" was not a human being name until Jesus changed Simon’s name to that. We explained why already. The Bible is with no errors, but personal interpretation can err, that why the interpretation is for the Church. I hope that you understand more about Mat 16:18-19. What I said is the Truth.
Some say that the use of two different words in the translation demonstrates a difference in Christ's meaning, "petros" meaning "little rock" and "petra" meaning "massive rock." This ignores the fact that first-century Greek did not make such a distinction, except in poetry. If Christ wished to refer to Peter as "little rock," the correct translation from the Aramaic to the Greek would be "lithos," not "petros" (incidentally, Isaiah 28:16 quoted above and 1 Peter 2:6, uses "lithos" when referring to Christ, the cornerstone). Yet even had Christ used "lithos" to refer to Peter (He didn't), it still would have meant nothing. Jesus is called "petra" only three times, but is called "lithos" (little rock) 12 times (e.g. Matthew 21:42,44), and Peter calls all believers lithoi ("stones" ) in 1 Peter 2:5.
More information please click here: http://www.envoymagazine.com/samplearticles/mar_apr98/
Summary, St. Peter and Jesus are the Rock. Jesus is the Cornerstone but St. Peter is the Rock referred in Matt 16:18-19, Jesus called him Rock. We talked that Petros and Petra means the same, rock.
I have more evidence about the papacy is clearly and overwhelmingly approved by God. The Catholic Church the only one true Church that Jesus founded. Any questions let us know.
The Catholic Church was not the first church,and Jesus did not founded the Catholic Church. This is only found in the Catholic bible. It is what one chooses to beleive. It is all about the messiah Jesus Christ, the only truth is Jesus Christ does not matter what man (religion) has said. Jesus came to save the sinner,if one believes he came and died for us and we allow his light to shine through us then that's what's it's all about. When Jesus said to Peter I will give you the keys to heaven,Jesus meant the gospel. Peter was the foundation for the gospel. Jesus was giving Peter the authority(ambassador) for the gospel. And when Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail,he was saying by giving Peter the authority no one not even Satan himself could stop the gospel being told.